We study FO+, a fragment of first-order logic on finite words, where monadic predicates can only appear positively. We show that there is an FO-definable language that is monotone in monadic predicates but not definable in FO+. This provides a simple proof that Lyndon's preservation theorem fails on finite structures. We lift this example language to finite graphs, thereby providing a new result of independent interest for FO-definable graph classes: negation might be needed even when the class is closed under addition of edges. We finally show that the problem of whether a given regular language of finite words is definable in FO+ is undecidable.

Comment: arXiv admin note: substantial text overlap with arXiv:2101.01968

• 03B70 - Logic in computer science
• 68-XX - Computer science